On the (Velvet) Ropes: The Oscar Contending Documentary Team Interviewed 03.26.00

Winner of the 1999 Sundance Film Festival Special Jury Prize, On the Ropes is a heartrending verite documentary about the lives of three Brooklyn boxers and their indomitable trainer Harry Keitt as they struggle to overcome adversity in and out of the ring.

In the years since the documentary was shot, professional boxer George, coaxed into turning pro by slick promoters, returned, the prodigal son, to Harry’s care. Amateur Noel Santiago is studying for his GED and wrestling with self-doubts about life in square circle. Tyrene Manson has spent over two years in prison, a victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but continues to box daily. Harry continues to train them all as well as new crew of fighters.

The film was nominated for an Academy Award, and I sat down with the excited “gym family” and filmmaker Brett Morgen (co-filmmaker Nanette Burstein was consumed with pre-show business) a few days before the ceremony at the Sunset Marquis in West Hollywood as they joked and cajoled and celebrated the film’s success.

On The Ropes can be seen on April 4th at 9:00 on The Learning Channel.

Welcome to Los Angeles.
George: Thanks. What magazine did you say?

Checkout.com.
George: Checkout.com. Check it out.com. You’re checking me out.com.

So, what’s been your journey from the time the movie was finished to winning at Sundance and now…
George: The Academy Awards, yeah. Well, all of us, basically, we’re still living the movie, you know? I mean, that was actual life, what we was going through. No acting. No watered-down stuff. Strictly, real. And to this day, it’s still happening. But now, you know, due to Nanette, Brett, TLC and all the support for the film--
Noel: God.
Tyrene: God. We can’t forget God.
George: Yeah, of course. You know, that goes without mentioning. But due to all the support, we are actually here now being rewarded for the struggles we was experiencing at the time. So, it’s an honor, you know. It shows that hard work pays off. It might not be today. It might not be tomorrow.
Noel: If you work hard, it will happen.
George: Eventually, it will pay off.
Tyrene: And it did. It did.
George: It’s a dream-come-true.
Tyrene: The Oscars!
George: Exactly.

How did you all come together with the filmmakers for this project?
Brett: Actually, the genesis is kind of interesting. It began with Nanette training with Harry. Initially it was gonna be a film about women’s boxing and Tyrene was gonna be one of those subjects, and we had two other women that we were looking at. And then we realized, “Well, what’s that film really about? What’s the cohesion between the different women? What sort of statements are we kind of making if we have Tyrene and then a blonde model and all this?” So Nanette and I talked about it and decided it’d be much better if we’re gonna have three stories, to have it contextualized and have a cohesion to the stories and that’s when it became clear that Harry would be the anchor of the film.
George: You know what it was? Fate. That’s what it was. It was destined to happen, you know? I mean, just like how all of our lives turn out and is going. None of it is planned. Fate. I never meant to box. It was fate that I became a fighter. Just like the film. That’s, in my opinion, what happened. Fate.
Harry: This started out because I was training Nanette and Nanette came to me after several months of training and said can she film me? I figured it was just gonna be some pictures and stuff like that and that’s about it. But then the filming turned into two-and-a-half years of constant filming. Hundreds of hours.
Brett: Let me say this: to make a great documentary in the verite tradition, there’s two things you need. You need great source material and you need great craftsmanship. When we got to the edit room, they inspired us to work that much harder because we knew we had this great source material and we wanted to go the distance to package it. They made our job so incredibly easy. No one can write a script the way they can express themselves. No writer could create those words. And they gave us total access into their lives.

What was that like, having your lives invaded, your most private moments filmed?
Noel: Cameras everywhere. Under your bed. In the bathroom. In your shower.
Harry: I mean, it’s like this: I talk about my life anyway, so it wasn’t really hard for me. The only thing that was hard for me was the stuff that I had buried for years. The stuff that I just didn’t want to deal with anymore. I had stuff that happened in my life, I had dug a grave for and covered up and I was never gonna deal with no more. And then during the filming, they got out their jackhammers and started digging and digging. But, you know, they didn’t make me look bad or nothing like that.
George: Nanette and Brett were extremely, extremely professional about it. The best I’ve ever worked with. There was no problem at all.
Noel: None whatsoever.
Harry: I don’t regret anything.
George: Don’t regret nothing.
Noel: I wouldn’t change nothing, either.
George: I give all the credit to Nanette and Brett and all the people that was involved in the editing and producing and all that stuff, all the credit for just transforming our lives. You know, we lived it, but they kind of like shaped it, molded it. We had the goods and the product and they just put it together and made the concoction. They did the building, so I commend them on that. And everyone involved, especially TLC, that helped distribute, make it happen
Noel: Mad props to TLC.
Tyrene: The Learning Channel.
George: Everyone’s a part of this. It’s love from all over.

When did TLC get involved? After Sundance?
Harry: I think they came in just before Sundance.
Tyrene: In fact, they were helping out before Sundance, yeah. And they seen it, they loved it and they knew, “This is it. This is a winner.” And look where we’re at now. From Bed-Stuy to Beverly Hills. Hollywood, California! Waiting for the Academy Awards. Go get the Oscar!
Noel: From Marcus Garvey to Sunset Boulevard.
Tyrene: Oh, here we go! I never thought it would be like this.
Harry: It’s like this: right now, this is like a dream. But the dream can become permanent--if you only want to do the work to get there. I mean, take a guy like Bill Gates. Bill Gates didn’t finish college. But you can’t say he was any worse for it. Bill Gates had a desire and a dream and an idea and he focused on that and now, he’s the richest man in the world, know what I’m saying? And we’re rich. We’re rich with ideas.
George: And spirit.
Harry: And spirit, you know? And hopefully I can take that I’m-rich-with-ideas-and-hard-work-and-spirit, one day, I can be as successful as that. Because like I said, I’m not gonna never give up. Because I gave up one time and it almost killed me. My time of giving up landed me in prison. My time giving up caused me to use drugs. Nothing in my life can ever make me give up now. I will never give up again. The only time I’ll give up is when I die. That’s when I give up.
Noel: He’s gonna outlast the Energizer bunny.
Harry: I’ll keep going and going and going.
George: And even then, your soul will probably still be battling.
Harry: I’ll be in your corner, dead, saying “Come on, man you gotta do it.”

Are you all still fighting?
George: Yes, yes, we’re still fighting.
Tyrene: And Harry’s still our trainer. He birthed us. Birthed us into boxing. Still going strong. Still being a father figure to us. We’re always gonna be a gym family.
Noel: He’s still the best at what he does. I’m back in training, so hopefully, God willing, I’ll be able to fight soon. Harry can whip me back into shape.
Tyrene: I’m planning on fighting as soon as I get out. I get out possibly October. I go before the parole board--possibly October. You know, I’m in shape and the next step is to go forward. For three years, I’ve been training, training, training. Daily. It’s time to get it on.

So you’re still in prison…
Tyrene: Yep, I’m still in prison. And I thank God that he allowed the Head of Corrections, New York State Corrections, to allow me to come across the states to attend the Academy Awards. This has never been done. You’re not allowed to go out of state at all--unless, you know, for a death in the family. And even then sometimes you can get turned down for that. So I have to thank the Commissioner.

How about you, George?
George: Me? I’m now 6-0 as a pro. My career, honestly, has not been going according to how I expected. It’s slow, but we’re picking it up. We’re starting to pick it up. Hopefully, with the Lord’s blessing, I should be performing once again. It’s gonna be a fight to see. I’m more fired up, again. The Academy just contributed to the flame. All of it is just coming together. Hopefully, like I say, with the Lord’s blessing, we’ll be there in no time.
Harry: We got a challenge from Washington, D.C. in June and we’re looking forward to that challenge. I say watch out when we come down there. Kick butt all the way to the White House.
George: Don’t get it wrong, we have love for D.C. They show all kinds of love.
Harry: But when that bell rings, ain’t no love in the ring.
George: Business is business, you know.
Harry: Ain’t no love in that ring.
George: Ain’t no love.
Harry: Not when I’m kicking your butt.
George: Ain’t no love in the ring. You know?
Noel: True.

Brett, do you box?
Brett: If you want to call it that.
Harry: Brett’s taking a break from the ring. But he gotta couple of punches on Noel.
Brett: Thank you, Harry.
Noel: Don’t believe him. Don’t believe him. Well, if he did, I probably let him, so he could feel good.
Brett: Of course.
Noel: I wanted to motivate him.
Brett: I’ll tell you a funny story. I started training with Harry right after we stopped shooting and it was so strange for me because for two years I had been filming Harry from behind someone’s shoulder, and suddenly, everything was a point-of-view shot, and here’s Harry talking directly at me. And he’s giving me the same speeches he’s giving these guys, and I could finish his speeches for him because I was in the edit room, I knew them by heart. And Harry would put a new twist on it, he’d say, “Brett, if you make films the way you box, you’re gonna make lousy films.” He’s a motivator.

Are you still boxing?
Brett: I had to stop because the editing got too intensive. I did about three or four months with him. And you know the thing about boxing, as Noel can testify, is that--
Noel: He stopped after the spars.
Brett: Aw, get back, son. Boxing’s like this: if you’re gonna do it, you gotta do it and you can’t make any excuses and you gotta do it five days a week. What happened to me, I would wake up at seven in the morning in some strange woman’s bed. I’d be like “I’ve got to get to the gym.” No matter what, I would get to the gym. One day, I woke up, I was like, “I don’t feel like going today.” And that was it. I was done.
Noel: That’s how it happens.
Brett: And Noel knows it. It’s hard to get up in the morning. It is hard to get up in the morning. You got to be so motivated and so determined.
Noel: But not for Harry.
Brett: Yeah, exactly! It’s not hard for Harry because he’s been there. He’s been out there. He knows what it’s like. And he knows what it takes to be a champion. That’s why Harry is a champion. Harry is a world champion. He’s a hero and he inspires all of us. He’s made every person in this room a better person and helped all of us reach our goals.
George: That’s love.
Noel: He’s the best there is.
George: Harry! Harry! Harry!

Are you still training out of the same gym?
Noel: No actually, we’re at Gleason’s.
Harry: We’re at Gleason’s right now. You know, I had to make some financial moves for myself. I needed to make some money and at Gleason’s, I could make some money.
Tyrene: He’s starting his own boxing club called, “On the Ropes.”
Harry: “On the Ropes.”
Tyrene: “On the Ropes Boxing.”
George: That’s right. On the Ropes in D.C., baby.
Harry: I’m using the name right now, I just don’t have the facility yet. But in due time, one day at a time, I’m working hard, I will.
Tyrene: It’s there. You just got to go get it.
George: And from what I’ve seen, he’s breeding a new herd of killers.

Who do you got coming up?
Harry: I got a new herd of killers.
Noel: A new kid named Mark Means? He’s ranked number one in the world. Number one in the world, man.
Harry: Yeah, he’s ranked number one in the world, so he’s coming up, he’s gonna do his thing. Hopefully, God bless, he’ll win the Golden Gloves this year.
Noel: Oh, he will.
Harry: I don’t see nothing--the only person get in his way is him. This kid is destined for great things because he works hard. He’s one of the kids that if he works hard enough, it’ll pay off. Like you know how you went to school, busted your ass and became a reporter? Same thing with this kid. He goes to school, comes to the gym everyday, and nobody can do nothing with him. I don’t even get in the ring with him no more. I learned my lesson.
Tyrene: He’s dedicated. No one is as dedicated as Marky is truly dedicated.
George: He will be a world champion.

I think that dedication is instilled in all of you. Even in your lives, when you get knocked to the mat, you always come up swinging.
Harry: We’re like Timex. We keep a lickin’ and keep on tickin’.
Tyrene: You can’t give up--especially with Harry. There’s no way to give up.
George: He won’t let you, you know?
Tyrene: Whether you’re in the ring or out the ring, Harry will never let you give up.
George: Well, you’ve seen the film. You see how inspiring he is. Especially when he gives you one of those once-in-a-lifetime speeches. You know, he can always find the right words. I think he needs to write a book on how to motivate. You gotta have a book.
Tyrene: He’s gonna have a book.
Brett: Harry is what I call the “hidden hero” of the movie. When you’re watching the movie, you don’t realize that he’s the star of the film, but by the time it’s over, you realize that he’s the driving force behind this whole thing. I’ll tell you something, there was a point in the edit where I started to get really depressed because at the end of the movie, George’s career wasn’t where he thought it was gonna go, Noel was in school, which is great, Tyrene was back in prison. I felt, “We’re making an incredibly nihilistic film.” This is a film in which three people put everything on the line and end up two steps backward. I had a long discussion with Nanette and our editor Nancy Baker and what Nancy said to us was, “It would be nihilistic and depressing if they gave up.” The fact that Harry will never give up, the fact that they all--even though they may be pushed back temporarily--they’re still gonna go forward. They will not surrender the dream and that is what the film celebrates. Harry doesn’t have to have a world champion fighter to be a world champion. He’s a world champion in his strength and dedication. And all these guys to get up in the morning and do what they do, they’re all heroic in their own way.

Yes. In the film’s coda, Tyrene is in jail and focusing on training…
Brett: Exactly! Tyrene is in prison and no one can defeat the woman’s spirit! She’s resilient. And I think that determination and that drive is something inspires us, and I think it should inspire Noel.
Noel: Yeah.
Brett: Who still needs to be a little more focused.
Harry: What inspires me is I saw this guy and everything for him to do was a struggle. I mean, it was a struggle just for him to talk. He was painting a picture, but he couldn’t use his limbs, so he was using his head! He painted a portrait, it was like abstract art, but you could see there was a face there. It was a struggle, but he came through. No matter what, he didn’t let his handicap handicap him. He used his handicap to the best of his ability and moved forward. I look at stuff like that and I look at myself in the mirror and I’m healthy, you know, so don’t come tell me you can’t do something. You can’t do something because you don’t want to do nothing. Because if I can get out of the bed in the morning and I’m forty-three-years-old, and they’re twenty, I don’t want to hear nothing. If your legs came off, roll to the gym in a wheelchair.
Brett: If you can look up, you can get up.
Harry: More men and women are in jail right now because of excuses. They let excuses get in their way. They let excuses hold them back.
Brett: To lift yourself up out of the most dire situation takes a Herculean effort and Harry hit rock bottom and by his own accord lifted himself up. He didn’t need a helping hand. I mean, that’s just awesome. It blows me away. He’s filled with so much wisdom and he’s learned from his mistakes and he’s moving forward. and I think we all can be better be for it.
George: Man, that was deep.
Brett: It’s true.

What’s your favorite boxing movie?
Harry: On the Ropes
Noel: On the Ropes. Yeah. You said it.
George: Without a doubt. It’s the greatest of all time.
Tyrene: And then after that, The Hurricane.
Harry: Three movies I’m gonna pick. First movie: On the Ropes. Second movie: On the Ropes. Third movie: On the Ropes. I don’t know what she’s talking about. There’s just On the Ropes. Hurricane come in the summertime, but the movie is On The Ropes.
George: On the Ropes.
Tyrene: On the Ropes. As far as that kind of motion picture, The Hurricane. Documentary? On the Ropes, all the way.
Brett: Don’t plug Denzel. He didn’t even watch our movie.
Tyrene: He’s gonna have to watch it eventually.

I’m sure he has cable.
Tyrene: Yeah. April 4. The Learning Channel. I have to thank TLC because of the blessing they’ve been.
Noel: We love TLC.
Tyrene: Love, TLC. It’s airing April 4 on TLC.
Noel: 9 O’clock.
Tyrene: So that more people can be familiarized with it.
Noel: Be sure to watch it. Check it out.
Tyrene: Check it out! Checkout.com.
George: For reals.

On the (Velvet) Ropes
The Oscar Contending Documentary Team Interviewed
By Tim Bennett
03.26.00

Winner of the 1999 Sundance Film Festival Special Jury Prize, On the Ropes is a heartrending verite documentary about the lives of three Brooklyn boxers and their indomitable trainer Harry Keitt as they struggle to overcome adversity in and out of the ring.

In the years since the documentary was shot, professional boxer George, coaxed into turning pro by slick promoters, returned, the prodigal son, to Harry’s care. Amateur Noel Santiago is studying for his GED and wrestling with self-doubts about life in square circle. Tyrene Manson has spent over two years in prison, a victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but continues to box daily. Harry continues to train them all as well as new crew of fighters.

The film was nominated for an Academy Award, and I sat down with the excited “gym family” and filmmaker Brett Morgen (co-filmmaker Nanette Burstein was consumed with pre-show business) a few days before the ceremony at the Sunset Marquis in West Hollywood as they joked and cajoled and celebrated the film’s success.

On The Ropes can be seen on April 4th at 9:00 on The Learning Channel.

Welcome to Los Angeles.
George: Thanks. What magazine did you say?

Checkout.com.
George: Checkout.com. Check it out.com. You’re checking me out.com.

So, what’s been your journey from the time the movie was finished to winning at Sundance and now…
George: The Academy Awards, yeah. Well, all of us, basically, we’re still living the movie, you know? I mean, that was actual life, what we was going through. No acting. No watered-down stuff. Strictly, real. And to this day, it’s still happening. But now, you know, due to Nanette, Brett, TLC and all the support for the film--
Noel: God.
Tyrene: God. We can’t forget God.
George: Yeah, of course. You know, that goes without mentioning. But due to all the support, we are actually here now being rewarded for the struggles we was experiencing at the time. So, it’s an honor, you know. It shows that hard work pays off. It might not be today. It might not be tomorrow.
Noel: If you work hard, it will happen.
George: Eventually, it will pay off.
Tyrene: And it did. It did.
George: It’s a dream-come-true.
Tyrene: The Oscars!
George: Exactly.

How did you all come together with the filmmakers for this project?
Brett: Actually, the genesis is kind of interesting. It began with Nanette training with Harry. Initially it was gonna be a film about women’s boxing and Tyrene was gonna be one of those subjects, and we had two other women that we were looking at. And then we realized, “Well, what’s that film really about? What’s the cohesion between the different women? What sort of statements are we kind of making if we have Tyrene and then a blonde model and all this?” So Nanette and I talked about it and decided it’d be much better if we’re gonna have three stories, to have it contextualized and have a cohesion to the stories and that’s when it became clear that Harry would be the anchor of the film.
George: You know what it was? Fate. That’s what it was. It was destined to happen, you know? I mean, just like how all of our lives turn out and is going. None of it is planned. Fate. I never meant to box. It was fate that I became a fighter. Just like the film. That’s, in my opinion, what happened. Fate.
Harry: This started out because I was training Nanette and Nanette came to me after several months of training and said can she film me? I figured it was just gonna be some pictures and stuff like that and that’s about it. But then the filming turned into two-and-a-half years of constant filming. Hundreds of hours.
Brett: Let me say this: to make a great documentary in the verite tradition, there’s two things you need. You need great source material and you need great craftsmanship. When we got to the edit room, they inspired us to work that much harder because we knew we had this great source material and we wanted to go the distance to package it. They made our job so incredibly easy. No one can write a script the way they can express themselves. No writer could create those words. And they gave us total access into their lives.

What was that like, having your lives invaded, your most private moments filmed?
Noel: Cameras everywhere. Under your bed. In the bathroom. In your shower.
Harry: I mean, it’s like this: I talk about my life anyway, so it wasn’t really hard for me. The only thing that was hard for me was the stuff that I had buried for years. The stuff that I just didn’t want to deal with anymore. I had stuff that happened in my life, I had dug a grave for and covered up and I was never gonna deal with no more. And then during the filming, they got out their jackhammers and started digging and digging. But, you know, they didn’t make me look bad or nothing like that.
George: Nanette and Brett were extremely, extremely professional about it. The best I’ve ever worked with. There was no problem at all.
Noel: None whatsoever.
Harry: I don’t regret anything.
George: Don’t regret nothing.
Noel: I wouldn’t change nothing, either.
George: I give all the credit to Nanette and Brett and all the people that was involved in the editing and producing and all that stuff, all the credit for just transforming our lives. You know, we lived it, but they kind of like shaped it, molded it. We had the goods and the product and they just put it together and made the concoction. They did the building, so I commend them on that. And everyone involved, especially TLC, that helped distribute, make it happen
Noel: Mad props to TLC.
Tyrene: The Learning Channel.
George: Everyone’s a part of this. It’s love from all over.

When did TLC get involved? After Sundance?
Harry: I think they came in just before Sundance.
Tyrene: In fact, they were helping out before Sundance, yeah. And they seen it, they loved it and they knew, “This is it. This is a winner.” And look where we’re at now. From Bed-Stuy to Beverly Hills. Hollywood, California! Waiting for the Academy Awards. Go get the Oscar!
Noel: From Marcus Garvey to Sunset Boulevard.
Tyrene: Oh, here we go! I never thought it would be like this.
Harry: It’s like this: right now, this is like a dream. But the dream can become permanent--if you only want to do the work to get there. I mean, take a guy like Bill Gates. Bill Gates didn’t finish college. But you can’t say he was any worse for it. Bill Gates had a desire and a dream and an idea and he focused on that and now, he’s the richest man in the world, know what I’m saying? And we’re rich. We’re rich with ideas.
George: And spirit.
Harry: And spirit, you know? And hopefully I can take that I’m-rich-with-ideas-and-hard-work-and-spirit, one day, I can be as successful as that. Because like I said, I’m not gonna never give up. Because I gave up one time and it almost killed me. My time of giving up landed me in prison. My time giving up caused me to use drugs. Nothing in my life can ever make me give up now. I will never give up again. The only time I’ll give up is when I die. That’s when I give up.
Noel: He’s gonna outlast the Energizer bunny.
Harry: I’ll keep going and going and going.
George: And even then, your soul will probably still be battling.
Harry: I’ll be in your corner, dead, saying “Come on, man you gotta do it.”

Are you all still fighting?
George: Yes, yes, we’re still fighting.
Tyrene: And Harry’s still our trainer. He birthed us. Birthed us into boxing. Still going strong. Still being a father figure to us. We’re always gonna be a gym family.
Noel: He’s still the best at what he does. I’m back in training, so hopefully, God willing, I’ll be able to fight soon. Harry can whip me back into shape.
Tyrene: I’m planning on fighting as soon as I get out. I get out possibly October. I go before the parole board--possibly October. You know, I’m in shape and the next step is to go forward. For three years, I’ve been training, training, training. Daily. It’s time to get it on.

So you’re still in prison…
Tyrene: Yep, I’m still in prison. And I thank God that he allowed the Head of Corrections, New York State Corrections, to allow me to come across the states to attend the Academy Awards. This has never been done. You’re not allowed to go out of state at all--unless, you know, for a death in the family. And even then sometimes you can get turned down for that. So I have to thank the Commissioner.

How about you, George?
George: Me? I’m now 6-0 as a pro. My career, honestly, has not been going according to how I expected. It’s slow, but we’re picking it up. We’re starting to pick it up. Hopefully, with the Lord’s blessing, I should be performing once again. It’s gonna be a fight to see. I’m more fired up, again. The Academy just contributed to the flame. All of it is just coming together. Hopefully, like I say, with the Lord’s blessing, we’ll be there in no time.
Harry: We got a challenge from Washington, D.C. in June and we’re looking forward to that challenge. I say watch out when we come down there. Kick butt all the way to the White House.
George: Don’t get it wrong, we have love for D.C. They show all kinds of love.
Harry: But when that bell rings, ain’t no love in the ring.
George: Business is business, you know.
Harry: Ain’t no love in that ring.
George: Ain’t no love.
Harry: Not when I’m kicking your butt.
George: Ain’t no love in the ring. You know?
Noel: True.

Brett, do you box?
Brett: If you want to call it that.
Harry: Brett’s taking a break from the ring. But he gotta couple of punches on Noel.
Brett: Thank you, Harry.
Noel: Don’t believe him. Don’t believe him. Well, if he did, I probably let him, so he could feel good.
Brett: Of course.
Noel: I wanted to motivate him.
Brett: I’ll tell you a funny story. I started training with Harry right after we stopped shooting and it was so strange for me because for two years I had been filming Harry from behind someone’s shoulder, and suddenly, everything was a point-of-view shot, and here’s Harry talking directly at me. And he’s giving me the same speeches he’s giving these guys, and I could finish his speeches for him because I was in the edit room, I knew them by heart. And Harry would put a new twist on it, he’d say, “Brett, if you make films the way you box, you’re gonna make lousy films.” He’s a motivator.

Are you still boxing?
Brett: I had to stop because the editing got too intensive. I did about three or four months with him. And you know the thing about boxing, as Noel can testify, is that--
Noel: He stopped after the spars.
Brett: Aw, get back, son. Boxing’s like this: if you’re gonna do it, you gotta do it and you can’t make any excuses and you gotta do it five days a week. What happened to me, I would wake up at seven in the morning in some strange woman’s bed. I’d be like “I’ve got to get to the gym.” No matter what, I would get to the gym. One day, I woke up, I was like, “I don’t feel like going today.” And that was it. I was done.
Noel: That’s how it happens.
Brett: And Noel knows it. It’s hard to get up in the morning. It is hard to get up in the morning. You got to be so motivated and so determined.
Noel: But not for Harry.
Brett: Yeah, exactly! It’s not hard for Harry because he’s been there. He’s been out there. He knows what it’s like. And he knows what it takes to be a champion. That’s why Harry is a champion. Harry is a world champion. He’s a hero and he inspires all of us. He’s made every person in this room a better person and helped all of us reach our goals.
George: That’s love.
Noel: He’s the best there is.
George: Harry! Harry! Harry!

Are you still training out of the same gym?
Noel: No actually, we’re at Gleason’s.
Harry: We’re at Gleason’s right now. You know, I had to make some financial moves for myself. I needed to make some money and at Gleason’s, I could make some money.
Tyrene: He’s starting his own boxing club called, “On the Ropes.”
Harry: “On the Ropes.”
Tyrene: “On the Ropes Boxing.”
George: That’s right. On the Ropes in D.C., baby.
Harry: I’m using the name right now, I just don’t have the facility yet. But in due time, one day at a time, I’m working hard, I will.
Tyrene: It’s there. You just got to go get it.
George: And from what I’ve seen, he’s breeding a new herd of killers.

Who do you got coming up?
Harry: I got a new herd of killers.
Noel: A new kid named Mark Means? He’s ranked number one in the world. Number one in the world, man.
Harry: Yeah, he’s ranked number one in the world, so he’s coming up, he’s gonna do his thing. Hopefully, God bless, he’ll win the Golden Gloves this year.
Noel: Oh, he will.
Harry: I don’t see nothing--the only person get in his way is him. This kid is destined for great things because he works hard. He’s one of the kids that if he works hard enough, it’ll pay off. Like you know how you went to school, busted your ass and became a reporter? Same thing with this kid. He goes to school, comes to the gym everyday, and nobody can do nothing with him. I don’t even get in the ring with him no more. I learned my lesson.
Tyrene: He’s dedicated. No one is as dedicated as Marky is truly dedicated.
George: He will be a world champion.

I think that dedication is instilled in all of you. Even in your lives, when you get knocked to the mat, you always come up swinging.
Harry: We’re like Timex. We keep a lickin’ and keep on tickin’.
Tyrene: You can’t give up--especially with Harry. There’s no way to give up.
George: He won’t let you, you know?
Tyrene: Whether you’re in the ring or out the ring, Harry will never let you give up.
George: Well, you’ve seen the film. You see how inspiring he is. Especially when he gives you one of those once-in-a-lifetime speeches. You know, he can always find the right words. I think he needs to write a book on how to motivate. You gotta have a book.
Tyrene: He’s gonna have a book.
Brett: Harry is what I call the “hidden hero” of the movie. When you’re watching the movie, you don’t realize that he’s the star of the film, but by the time it’s over, you realize that he’s the driving force behind this whole thing. I’ll tell you something, there was a point in the edit where I started to get really depressed because at the end of the movie, George’s career wasn’t where he thought it was gonna go, Noel was in school, which is great, Tyrene was back in prison. I felt, “We’re making an incredibly nihilistic film.” This is a film in which three people put everything on the line and end up two steps backward. I had a long discussion with Nanette and our editor Nancy Baker and what Nancy said to us was, “It would be nihilistic and depressing if they gave up.” The fact that Harry will never give up, the fact that they all--even though they may be pushed back temporarily--they’re still gonna go forward. They will not surrender the dream and that is what the film celebrates. Harry doesn’t have to have a world champion fighter to be a world champion. He’s a world champion in his strength and dedication. And all these guys to get up in the morning and do what they do, they’re all heroic in their own way.

Yes. In the film’s coda, Tyrene is in jail and focusing on training…
Brett: Exactly! Tyrene is in prison and no one can defeat the woman’s spirit! She’s resilient. And I think that determination and that drive is something inspires us, and I think it should inspire Noel.
Noel: Yeah.
Brett: Who still needs to be a little more focused.
Harry: What inspires me is I saw this guy and everything for him to do was a struggle. I mean, it was a struggle just for him to talk. He was painting a picture, but he couldn’t use his limbs, so he was using his head! He painted a portrait, it was like abstract art, but you could see there was a face there. It was a struggle, but he came through. No matter what, he didn’t let his handicap handicap him. He used his handicap to the best of his ability and moved forward. I look at stuff like that and I look at myself in the mirror and I’m healthy, you know, so don’t come tell me you can’t do something. You can’t do something because you don’t want to do nothing. Because if I can get out of the bed in the morning and I’m forty-three-years-old, and they’re twenty, I don’t want to hear nothing. If your legs came off, roll to the gym in a wheelchair.
Brett: If you can look up, you can get up.
Harry: More men and women are in jail right now because of excuses. They let excuses get in their way. They let excuses hold them back.
Brett: To lift yourself up out of the most dire situation takes a Herculean effort and Harry hit rock bottom and by his own accord lifted himself up. He didn’t need a helping hand. I mean, that’s just awesome. It blows me away. He’s filled with so much wisdom and he’s learned from his mistakes and he’s moving forward. and I think we all can be better be for it.
George: Man, that was deep.
Brett: It’s true.

What’s your favorite boxing movie?
Harry: On the Ropes
Noel: On the Ropes. Yeah. You said it.
George: Without a doubt. It’s the greatest of all time.
Tyrene: And then after that, The Hurricane.
Harry: Three movies I’m gonna pick. First movie: On the Ropes. Second movie: On the Ropes. Third movie: On the Ropes. I don’t know what she’s talking about. There’s just On the Ropes. Hurricane come in the summertime, but the movie is On The Ropes.
George: On the Ropes.
Tyrene: On the Ropes. As far as that kind of motion picture, The Hurricane. Documentary? On the Ropes, all the way.
Brett: Don’t plug Denzel. He didn’t even watch our movie.
Tyrene: He’s gonna have to watch it eventually.

I’m sure he has cable.
Tyrene: Yeah. April 4. The Learning Channel. I have to thank TLC because of the blessing they’ve been.
Noel: We love TLC.
Tyrene: Love, TLC. It’s airing April 4 on TLC.
Noel: 9 O’clock.
Tyrene: So that more people can be familiarized with it.
Noel: Be sure to watch it. Check it out.
Tyrene: Check it out! Checkout.com.
George: For reals.